through the cat door and trying to lure them out all night with pizza and beer. my wife head butted me into the nose and i'm trying to figure out if it's broken. >> the flying head butt like the flying bigelow. that's nasty. "morning joe" is next. from iran mahmood ahmadinejad is in new york and received a chilly reception and i said, hey, welcome to the club! >> he kicked off the session at the u.n. yesterday with a hate-filled rant and hors d'oeuvres. mon evidently, let me say two words, let me say a couple words about mahmood ahmadinejad.

i'd like to say a couple words about the guy. short and ugly. there you go. welcome to "morning joe." great to have you with us. what a day in norm city yesterday. we actually had breakfast with ahmadinejad. you had lunch with warren buffett. i thought it was a bit in politic for you to ask him to come on "morning joe." tell people, you get warren buffett. you're at lunch and what do you say to him? >> he would be more than willing to carve out a three or four-minute segment once a week to just do stock tips. buffett's picks. >> what are you looking at? he's a hungry kid. >> you had breakfast with ahmadinejad. you had lunch with buffett. >> well, he was at the next table. i didn't have lunch with him. >> i had chicken tenders with my daughter. she's three. >> you're better than us,

willie. >> that's like every time i'm going around with mika at speeches and she's giving stories. and then we -- i saw yasir arafat and stalin and churchill. >> is that your mika? >> that's all i got. >> your dad ran u.s. foreign policy. my dad ran a little league team in meridian, mississippi. it's fine. willie is snuggaling up to the chicken tenders. >> it's got to be the only city in the world where the new york police department can do such an effective job on a day when heads of state throughout the world are here and the city functions. traffic moves -- slowly, but it moves. they take everyone in and out of traffic, up and downside walks with five, six-car caravans. >> by the way, saw ray kelly last night. it was a long, long day for us.

but the city, the city operates amazing, and the cops, new york cops, the firefighters, it really is -- it is the best run city i've ever seen. >> and the yankees played last night. >> and the yankees played last night. >> speaking of cops, though, those clowns in washington, d.c. have two weeks to take care of the heroes that gave everything they had after september 11th. the heroes that all of america saluted. the heroes that people came to new york -- those clowns down in washington, d.c. have, mike, two, maybe three days. what are they -- >> ability seven legislative days. >> about seven legislative days left. if republicans and democrats in the house do not come together

and pass this 9/11 bill, then the firefighters and the police officers that gave their all on 9/11 and the weeks after, they don't get their benefits. this is very simple, mike. this is very simple. it is a matter of record. the mayor's office will tell you this. nbc news will tell you this. politico will tell you this. everybody will tell you this. nancy pelosi has the votes to pass this bill. >> right now. >> right now, nancy pelosi could go on the floor today and pass this bill but she doesn't want to do it because she doesn't want to embarrass the blue dogs in the south that don't want to vote for anything that's helping new york city and the hispanic caucus that want illegal immigrants to get these benefits. listen, let's have the debate on immigration. that's great. nancy pelosi is saying -- by the way, republicans are shamefully, just about all of them are

shamefully against this. don't write me and say why don't you attack the republicans, too. i am, it's shameful. nancy pelosi said put us in charge and we will change things here. democrats have been put in charge, and new york city cops and new york firefighters that gave their all on 9/11. they aren't going to get help because nancy pell lows z wants to protect a couple groups in her democratic caucus and because the republicans are acting shamefully. >> if you look at what's happened or actually not happened in this congress thus far this year, if you listen to the rhetoric on both sides when every issue reaches the surface, whether it's don't ask don't tell, whether it's the 9/11 bill, when you listen to them and monitor their behavior, it is absolutely no surprise why people joined the tea party. >> and why they join the tea

party and why they become independent. harold, you and i have both crossed party bosses. you crossed democratic party bosses when you deerd to think about actually not following blindly in line. you got the hell beat out of you by everybody in the democratic party. i did when i was in congress, constantly fighting the party bosses there. this is why americans hate washington, why they hate congress. 9/11 heroes are suffering now because republicans and democrats are covering their flank. the bill could pass today. >> right. it's been nine years. to mike's point, not only does it make people not support washington. people stand back and you have to think, if you're a ninth grader, eighth grader studying civics and you're watching and asking the question, if these questions come up in a classroom setting, why is it that they can't do this? as someone who is a democrat and

who is proud of my party in many ways, someone who served thatn that body and is proud of it, this is just incredulous, the best word, the best spin i can put on it. in some ways it's just mean. people who didn't ask a question that day. >> went straight down there, ran into the buildings without asking -- as everybody was running out, these men and women ran in the buildings asking no questions but how can we help and save lives? >> duty. they did what they were supposed to do. >> congress has the votes. nancy pelosi has the votes this morning to pass this bill. >> whatever the reason for not doing it, no one can understand it. >> she and republicans are playing politics with this and a couple of people in the new york delegation sadly. >> this is one of those cases -- >> this is a great case, by the way, where there are unfortunately more goliaths than

davids in washington. we need more davids than goliaths out there. >> to harold's point and one reinforced in his great new book, washington completely disconnected with real people on this. they said, well, you don't understand the way things work. there's tax increase in there, about immigration. nobody wants to hear that. to the american people, this is an easy one. there are a lot of complicated difficult ones, we get that. this is an easy one. find a way to get it done. >> barnicle said it best, this is why people in washington and a lot of my democratic friends don't get the tea party. this may not be the number one thing people say, but this is the sentiment and the thought that pro voex that kind of support for third parties or i understand dernts and now the tea party. >> everyone tries to paint the tea parties as crazy. guess what? most of america thinks republicans and democrats are

crazy. you know who is not crazy? norah o'donnell. she's got this book, and i've been straining my cucumbers and zucchinis for my 2-year-old baby. what's the name of your book, nora? >> "baby love." >> i know that. yes eve got to do news. this is a run-away bestseller by the way. >> it is. a "new york times" bestseller. i'm going to make you purées, buddy, once we get done with politics. you want to hear the news? >> by the way, washington, d.c., they're only talking about one thing today. they should be talking about new york cops and new york firefighters, but instead they're talking about bob woodward's book, explosive revelations coming out today in "the washington post." tell us about that and what else you got in the news. >> actually "the new york times" breaking this morning. details out on this

much-anticipated new book by bob woodward, now offering this rare behind the scenes look at the obama administration's decision to increase troops in afghan. it's called "obama's wars." it has critical players like vice president joe biden and special envoy richard holbrooke doubting the president's strategy there. according to secret meetings, notes and documents cited in the book, president obama pressed military advisors for a way out of afghanistan last year. when they only offered options that required adding significantly more troops, the president crafted his own strategy that called for 30,000 troops in a short-term escalation. after the president informed the military of his decision, there were still conflicts. the president is quoted as telling chairman of the joint chiefs of staff admiral mike mullen, then head of the u.s. central command, general david petraeus and defense secretary

rob bert gates, quote, in 2010 we will not be having a conversation about how to do more. we're not going to be having a conversation about how to change the mission unless we're talking about how to draw down faster than anticipated in 2011. according to woodward, pet they yus took the president's decision as a personal rejection of his counterinsurgency plan and quotes the general as saying this. you have to recognize, also, that i don't think you win this war. this is the kind of fight we're in for the rest of our lives and probably our kids' lives. here is, of course, the juicy stuff. the book also reveals some intense infighting, for example, vice president biden reportedly called richard holbrooke -- you'll love this joe -- the most egotistical bastard i've ever met. >> i love joe biden, but where does that come from? out of the blue. go ahead. what else you got? >> secretary gates allegedly warned that tom done lon would be a, quote, disaster if

promoted to be national national security adviser. general petraeus is said to say that david axelrod is a, quote, complete spin doctor. in addition t book discloses that according to u.s. intelligence reports, amid karzai was diagnosed as a manic depressive. >> you think? taliban, freedom, taliban, free done mike barnicle. we all know people like that. just stay on the damn meds. stay on the meds. >> a lot of stuff going on here, mike. richard holbrooke was on a couple days ago. i'm not knocking richard because he's got a job. and when you sign up for the job, you debate behind closed doors. and then you salute. we pressed him yesterday or the day before on afghanistan and told him it wouldn't work. and he said, oh, it is going to work and we have to stay there.

and then we find out in the book, we don't think it's going to work. >> you're not surprised at that, are you? >> no. biden doesn't think it's going to work. most of the administration doesn't think it's going to work. the president got rolled by the generals. did you read what petraeus said? an american hero, love the guy. did remarkable things in iraq. but he's telling obama we're going to be fighting this war for the rest of our lives and our kids' lives. no, we're not. we or not. we're out of afghanistan. we or not going to be fighting this for the raeft of our lives. >> there's an interesting anecdote in the story about the book that has to do with the conversation between general petraeus and major general doug liu who is president obama's adviser on afghanistan in the white house. petraeus is alleged to have said in the book to lute that what we'll do is show a little progress -- i'm paraphrasing --

we'll show a little progress but at the end of the year we'll be able to say, here is what we've done, but we need a little more. he say that is a classic misreading of this president. i think this is a very healthy thing, if this internal division, dissension over afghanistan is occurring in the white house and the president is hearing it, that can't be anything but healthy. >> i think this is good. the president, though, was warned by a lot of people, harold, that he was going to be set up by the generals. the general's job is to win the war and get as many troops over there as they can and to stay there as long as they can. i understand. if they're in the field, that's their job, that's their objective. but the commander in chief in this case got rolled by the generals. what mcchrystal said is what the generals think of him. he just said it. when petraeus comes out in 2011

and barack obama's approval rating is at 41%, 42%, he says, if you pull out now you'll be responsible for a lost war and a lot of terror attacks. what's he going to do? he's going to stay there. he is boxed in because -- >> i think you painted an accurate picture. if the generals were able to wield that kind of influence early, six months before the republican primaries, it's likely the president will be forced -- you can't count this -- this president is unique. he is willing to -- >> that's what he says. >> he's willing to sort of put a plank down and put a marker down when it's not popular to do. as he said the other night in his town hall meeting, he said, if i was doing things that were popular, i wouldn't have done health care. >> these woodward books -- you know who did pretty well? >> he ought to write one on health care. >> you know who did well?

valerie jarrett. she's mentioned nowhere. every time woodward was coming up, she said, i'll be right back. she did well. >> we didn't even get to larry summers in this segment. >> gone. >> boy, that is bad news. summers gone. nora, we have so much to talk about. >> so much to talk about. >> the economic team has been blown apart. quit yelling in my ear, chris. i'll go to willie. gee. >> geithner is like the last guy standing for now. >> for now. >> dropping like flies. >> christine romer is gone. >> orszag. >> your two top -- three top exec architects gone. you say unemployment is going to be held below 8%. you've given republicans a lot to play with this fall. coming up next, democrats --

michelle obama going to be huge heading into november. a first look inside the political play book. also, corruption on steroids. the other shoe drops on a group of in bell california. >> did that guy eat the town? >> why did you go there? >> he ate the employees. >> he looks tired, too, doesn't he? >> if you're carrying that much around, you'd be tired, too. >> here is bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> doughnut coma. warm temperatures up and down the east coast. going to feel like summer. by the way, fall officially arrives later tonight. only a few of you need to carry the umbrella. if you look at the radar, buffalo, syracuse, rochester, rain sliding in your way. that will happen probably in the next hour or two. temperatures are warm. not like yesterday morning where

it was cold around providence and hartford. in the 60s, later today, it will feel like mid summer. temperature in the mid 80s in most locations. look at washington, d.c., topping off at 91. new york city, you have three days of summer. then we return to much cooler weather, especially sunday. 88 on thursday and on friday. that's almost like beach and pool weather. the rest of the country is very warm, too. 91 in atlanta. cooler weather is from chicago to minneapolis. in arizona flash flooding around phoenix. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line.

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[ vonetta ] it is countdown to marshmallow time. bankers are known to be a little bit in love with themselves.. trust me. are we going up? we can get the next one. i'd like to get your advice on hedging - risk... exposure. what makes us different? for 300 years we've chosen to focus on our clients. what a novel idea.

street hedge fund manager. >> i-report the wall street community. we have felt like a piñata. maybe you don't feel like you're walking us with a stick. we certainly feel like we've been whacked like a stick. when will we stop walking at the wall street company yacht that. >> i don't know. maybe when the [ bleep ] candy comes out. that's how piñatas work. "the boston globe," former harvard university president larry summers, the chief architect of the federal stimulus plan is leaving the post and returning to university to teach by the end of the year. mike, surprised? >> no. actually not. one of the big things is he has to get back i think by the second semester of next year, in january, to keep his tenured

position. that's a big deal. >> that is. >> you don't report to work, you lose your job. that would make him like a lot of other people in this country which he doesn't want to be. >> getting his own private stimulus plan. denver post, the story making front page knows, don't ask don't tell hits a wall. it prohibits gays from serving openly in the military. no such luck yesterday. the "san francisco chronicle" shows republican candidate for governor meg whitman kicking off a week of high-profile fundraisers yesterday with condoleezza rice outside san francisco. a new public policy poll released yesterday shows whitman trailing her democratic challenger jerry brown 47% to 42%. >> "los angeles times," the los angeles district attorney calls it a case of corruption on steroids. eight city officials from the

los angeles suburb of belle spent the night in jail after being arrested for misappropriating $5.5 million -- >> calories. >> -- in city funds. that includes the former city manager of this small town who was making over $800,000. >> ghi was making $800,000. >> that's twice the salary of president obama by the way. >> in belle, california, which it's quite close to watts and south central where the poverty rate is enormous among the citizens. >> wow, that is glut any. with us, politico's andy bar is here with a look at the morning playbook. andy, how are you doing? >> good, guys. how are you doing? >> doing well n. the ramp-up to the midterm elections, democrats unleashing michelle obama on a fund-raising blitz in some trouble spots. there's been speculation as to whether or not she's going to go out. it looks like she will now.

>> right, you hit on it for months we were not sure what she was going to do just because there's all the speculation about what the president is going to do. democrats are not sure whether they want him in the district. but michelle obama remains enormously popular, still someone that every democrat wants to come in and fundraise. it didn't seem like she wanted to step into politics. now they're announcing next month she'll do a swing through six states, eight congressional districts and she's fund-raising for the dnc and dccc. >> mark halprin has been telling us for some time she didn't want to go out and campaign. >> he indicates this may indicate desperation in some places. andy bar, thanks so much. we'll talk to you later in the show. >> very nice of andy to be on the show because the bus was outside the door and he was late for the bus yesterday. good luck on your quiz, andy. great to see you.

so young, so young. >> he's a political prodigy. still ahead, what a new study reveals -- >> am i getting old because everybody is looking so dam young these day sns i turned on willie when you were hosting this show and i was with my family in maine, the average age, 17 years old on the set. you said it. >> we had sorkin -- >> bob costa. you talk about a prodigy. >> michael crowley, sam stein. it was like "romper room." i include myself. i probably shouldn't anymore. but i do. what a new study reveals about linking teacher pay to student performance and looking ahead to tomorrow, do not miss. former president bill clinton live on "morning joe," cannot wait to talk to him. we'll be right back. at northern trust, we understand...

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today, fifteen million men and women won't have the opportunity to go to work. businesses shuttered. twenty nine hundred families will have their homes foreclosed by nightfall. this afternoon six thousand men and women will be married, each of their children to be born with a thirty thousand dollar share of the runaway national debt. our government is now taking over the choices we once made in life. there's mourning in america. under the leadership of president obama our country is fading and weaker and worse off. his policies were a grand experiment, policies that failed. this november, let's choose a smaller,

more caring government, one that remembers us.

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welcome back to "morning joe" everybody. lots of news in washington and also news on the senate vote yesterday on repealing the ban on gays serving openly in the military. they have to wait until after the midterm elections after the measure failed tood vance yesterday. republicans with the aid of two arkansas democrats voted unanimously against taking up the bill, calling it a political ploy used to mobilize special interest voters ahead of the elections. shortly after the vote john mccain had a testy exchange with reporters where he challenged assertions that the military actively seeks to identify gay and lesbian service members. >> you do not -- >> that's not the fact. >> that is the fact. i know the military very well. what is being done is they're not seeking out people who are gay. i don't care what you say. i know it's a fact. >> it's not what i say.

>> i don't care what you say and i don't care what others say. i've seen it in action. i've seen it in action. i have a son in the military. i know the military very well. so they're not telling you the truth. >> the vatican says it is, quote, perplexed and surprised by investigation into suspected money laundering at the vatican back. italian authorities yesterday freezed $30 million from the bank accounts and placed the top two officers under investigation. the probe was launched after two suspicious transactions were reported to tax police in rome. a new study says offering teachers bonuses to improve test scores may not work. researchers at vanderbilt university sfud deed nashville teachers up to $15,000 if students scored higher than expected, they were no more successful than teachers who did not receive the money. that could reshape the debate about merit pay programs being pushed by the obama administration and state governments as a central piece.

i say it's too soon. one study. >> far too soon. let it breathe. >> it was a vanderbilt study. >> exactly. >> which makes it definitive. >> actually, that's not where nora and i were going with that. nora, we have a lot to talk about obviously. christine mcdonald, more information, deciding she's not going to go on national news shows anymore which breaks our heart. >> she's doing so well. >> she has done well. >> she says she's following the advice of sarah palin, will not do national media, although she did do hannity last night. she's going to be focused on the local media. the latest poll has her down 15 points. i think we'd all like to see more of christine o'donnell. >> i sure know i would. i've been -- we'll see. we'll reach out to mcdonald's people. let's go to sports and we'll talk about this more after the

break. >> yes. let's talk yankees-rays, biggest series in baseball right now. yankee stadium, second of four last night. yankees won the first game of the series. let's san jose see how they did last night. bottom of the first yankees open it up right away, nick swisher with a solo home run to right, 27th of the season. puts the yankees up 1-0. in the same inning, lance berkman who they picked up in the middle of the season rips a two-run double to center. a-rod and jorge posada both score, part of a five db run first inning for the yankees. they put it away in the seventh. robinson cano puts one to left field. diving stab. no such. two-run double for can't know. ians win 8-3, 2 1/2 games up on tampa. >> how are you feeling, willie? >> they won the first two. if they take three out of four, you feel really good about things. >> going into the play-offs, yeah.

>> red sox this weekend. >> but the red sox lost last night. >> red sox going to be able to be a spoiler this weekend against the yankees? >> no. they been packing their bags for about a month, just looking at the calendar. >> elsebury had a hangnail. >> big blister on his toe. it might take a couple years to fix. >> don't want to push the kid too much. he's only like 23. >> slow down. >> get him the hell out of boston. can you tell them to get him the hell out of boston. we needed him this year? >> you think? >> by the way, they did great. they overachieved, but ellsbury was a clunker. >> the red sox had their starting lineup on opening day on the field nine times. >> what happened to ellsbury? everybody loved him a couple years ago. >> he phoned it in.

he got a splinter in april and he's off for three months. he comes back and he had a flea bite behind his ear. thought he had lime's disease. at some point people will realize if they get morris as their agent, they might get a few extra dollars, but in the long run, they lose. >> human nature being what it is, joe, if you're a ball player, who would you want as your agent? >> not him. i say that as a fan. come on. >> he'll get you the money. >> please. i'm in it for the love of the game. >> of course you are. the team a lot of people are sleeping on and shouldn't be, the minnesota twins. they become the first team into the postseason with a win against the hapless indians last night. jim thome, a solo home run at one. in the eighth inning, game tied

at 4. in the ninth inning, minnesota's matt capps comes on for a strikeout to end the game. the twins win 6-4. they didn't know at this point they'd clinch. they had to wait, stuck around and saw the white sox lost to the as. that gave the twins their second straight al central title. big celebration at the new target field. they're a dangerous team right now. >> they are. we'll go to nfl. the eagles quarterback michael vick will start this sunday against jacksonville, this despite the return of kevin cobb who had the job to start the season before he suffered a concussion in week one. eagles coach andy reid said on monday that cobb was his guy explaining yesterday why he decided to make a change and go with vick. >> i think his play has even exceeded expectation over the

last two weeks. again, this is more about michael vick and his accelerated play. he said in there, possibly the hottest quarterback in the national football league at this time. and he deserves an opportunity to play. >> if you say something nice about michael vick, we'll get the e-mails. michael vick said he was ten times the player than he was four years ago. he's playing like it. >> wasn't that great to hear peter say he's really grown up, that he's comfortable now with himself? that's great news. >> terrific news. >> boy, he can play. >> still got the wheels, too, at 30 years old. >> he's done something that no other player has ever done, making me root for the philadelphia eagles. that doesn't happen. >> absolutely. >> you've got to root for

donovan mcnabb of the redskins. >> i never rooted for him in philadelphia. i am pulling for him hard in washington and shanahan. that's exciting. >> the great thing about philly fans, i went to college in philly, they have a court in the jail at the bottom, not because they would fight other fans, they get to fighting themselves. >> seriously. i cheer against the teams. they boo santa claus. these are tough people. >> they're passionate. >> that's good. be passionate. >> city of brotherly love. up next, is she or isn't she? sarah palin has a new ad out that makes it sound like she's running for president in 2012. we'll play it and let you decide. also, christine o'donnell admits she regrets the '80s like so many of us. that's next on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] stay once...

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the tea party movement is not a top-down operation. it's a ground-up call to action forcing both parties to change the way they're doing business, and that's beautiful. the soul of this movement is the people. everyday americans who grow our food and run our small businesses, teach our kids and fight our wars. they're folks in small towns and cities across this great nation

who saw what was happening and they got involved. it is just so inspiring to see real people, not politicos, not inside-the-beltway professionals come out and speak out for common sense conservative principles. who can argue a movement that is about the people? government is supposed to be working for the people. that is what this movement is about. this party that we call the tea party is the future of politics, and i'm proud to get to be here today. welcome back to "morning joe." harold, looks like she's running for something. >> yeah, sounds like it. she looks good, sounds good. i'm not sure -- i don't know where she was when the debt was being quadrupled before she got into office, but it looks good. >> mike, is she running for something? >> i agree with jimmy carter,

oddly enough -- >> i got a lot of e-mails. i leave here and you go on a rant against the 38th president or something? >> yeah. >> former president of the united states, for god's sake. you upset a lot of americans and north koreans yesterday with that diatribe, that rant. you think it's easy getting nuclear weapons? >> he is quoted in "the new york times" in maureen dowd's column about sarah palin, she should not run and she won't run. that's jimmy carter's belief. that's also my belief. >> willie, is she going to run? >> yeah. i think she can't resist. he also got buchanan to say something nice about jimmy carter. >> that was the report. >> i bring people together. i'm coming out of this ahmadinejad breakfast with mika and it occurs to us after getting the transcript e-mailed to us that ahmadinejad was saying nicer things about israel

than you were saying about jimmy carter. two hours after we're teaching about keeping calm that even pat buchanan felt sorry for jimmy carter and had to defend him. you're like karzai. you're on your meds, you're off your meds. >> i love you. i hate you. >> boy, that sounds familiar. norah o'donnell, you have done extensive reporting on sarah palin. it certainly looked like a political campaign ad to all of us. what about you? >> i think she'll run. i don't know that she can win, but i think what's clear in this is that if she does run, she will run as part of the tea party, not as part of the republican party. she's described the tea party as a movement, not a party. but that's her base. she wants to sort of speak to that base, be the so-called leader of that base and i don't think willie is right. i don't think she can resist getting into this race. she's profiting off her celebrity. her new book is coming out.

she's making a lot of money from her pac that she overwhelmingly uses to fund her travel, not donate to candidates. >> a lot of people, norah, say she's not going to run, she's going to make money as newt gingrich can tell you and as newt gingrich told -- i think he told mitch daniels a couple months ago, talk about running for president, it helps book sales. so sarah palin, even if she's not running wants people to think she is till the last second. it's cynical, but, yeah. harold? >> remember, if the republicans gain a majority in the house and/or the senate, you will have a large number of these tea party candidates that make it happen. it was reported in politico a few days ago that boehner said he can manage a tea party -- large number of tea partiers in the congress. you have some conservatives saying we're going to demand certain things. sarah palin would be the national face and national voice

and maybe even national organizer of some of this new energy in the congress. so whether she runs or not, she's certainly going to be that power broker. i agree with willie, i think she's running. >> joe, the house republicans are going to unveil tomorrow in virginia sort of their blueprint, their game plan, what they're going to do if they take control of congress. there's going to be a couple nods to the tea party movement in that platform that's unveiled tomorrow. they recognize this is a powerful group that will help propel them into power certainly in the house. >> and the thing is, again, this tea party movement is so much like the pro movement. for some reason you bring that up and people are always, no, no, it's worse. but the perot people were talking about the same thing, limited government, the constituti constitution, didn't want excessive engagement overseas. that's where sarah palin splits from the tea party. tea party are a lot like ron paul and pat buchanan and the

perot people. they don't think we should be fighting wars all over the world. i'm in one accord for them. you can't be for small government at home and be for massive intervention overseas. sarah palin, i don't know that there's a war that's been fought over the past 20 years that sarah palin didn't like. >> if you spend any time at all at these tea party rallies, whether they're just, any time at all, you find out very quickly that, yeah, sure, there are crazy people in the tea party and in the democratic party. there are crazy people everywhere. a huge percentage of people in the tea party at these rallies have the same concerns, the same worries that your next-door neighbor does. guess what? your next-door neighbor might be a member of the tea party. >> right. >> i would guess if you laid out what the main tea party organizations supported, limited government, smaller deficits,

less taxes, less foreign interventions, i would guess if you put that plank, just the plank, but the tea party plank out there, put the democratic party plank out there, the republican party plank out there without any titles affixed to the top and say which one do you support, i guarantee you the majority of americans would support the tea party platform. >> or at least plurality. >> we still have christine mcdonald talk about. >> about ten minutes from now. also former car czar steve rat nert will take us behind the scenes as he and the white house try to save the auto industry. deepak choep practice will be here and michele norris. up next, a little news you can't use. we couldn't do anything to save the hoff. >> say it ain't so, willie. look at him.

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but for me, it's even more than that. game time is about our time. together. [ female announcer ] get low prices on all your favorites for the game. save money. live better. walmart. is it time? >> please time for "news you can't use." >> we're all a little poorer as a people this morning, willie. where were you, willie, when the music died, the day the music died? >> i'm going to be honest. i can't even bring myself to

deliver this news. let's watch what happened last night on "dancing with the stars." >> the vurts have spoken, david and kim, kyle and lacey, on this premier week of competition, the couple with the lowest overall combined total and, therefore, leaving right now is david and kim. >> yes, david hasselhoff eliminated last night. >> he will not go quietly into that garden. >> we've not seen the last of the hoff. >> perhaps a light went out last night, but a thousand others will be -- come on. what are they doing? this is american culture on the skids. >> bristol palin survived. that's good news. we'll see her back. >> some people said in my e-mails that i was picking on her. no, i seriously felt sorry for

her because she was put in a position she was uncomfortable with. i admired her for going out there and doing it and not wanting to embarrass her mom. she was in a terrible position. >> bristol survived and "the situation" survived. yesterday jon stewart on oprah. last week she gave away the trip to australia. watch. >> have a seat. what's the luggage all about? where are you going? >> you tell me. where are we all going? >> that's good. >> i'm ready for anything. >> you are going to -- >> i have a bathing suit in here. i have winter clothes. i have a revolutionary war hat in case you announce we're going back in time. this is oprah. she can do whatever she wants.

>> oprah actually can reverse time. >> she can, she can do whatever she wants to do. >> he was well prepared. good morning. >> nice of you to join us. >> a little tough for her to wake up this morning because the hoff was voted off. >> are you okay, mika? >> i have a little headache, but i'm good. >> were you out drinking with jets players last night? >> no. i was at arianna's. >> up next, former car czar stephen rattner and what it took to save america's auto industry. . or the hundred-thousand mile powertrain warranty. over a thousand people a day are switching to chevy. they're not just trading in, they're trading up. qualified lessees can get low mileage lease on this 2011 malibu ls for around one ninety-nine a month. call for details. the switch to chevy starts at chevydealer.com.

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teenage rebellion. some people dabble in drugs to repel. that's how i rebelled. who didn't do questionable things in high school and who doesn't regret the '80s to some extent? i certainly do. i most certainly regret bringing it up to bill maher. >> welcome to "morning joe." seriously, again, most people when they regret things they did in the '80s, it may be a girlfriend that you dated or maybe you drank a little bit too much one night and made a fool of yourself at the high school prom, right? >> yeah. >> she regrets engaging in witchcraft and having dates on satanic altars with blood. i'd like to say it's all relative, but no. no, it is not, not in this case. >> well, i don't know.

we'll have to -- i actually think it's a pretty good line. >> she's very good. >> she's very good. >> good at digging herself out of some remarkable spots. >> i saw on twitter that she is much better than sarah palin in dealing with the media which makes me not understand our next story. still with us this morning, mike barnicle -- >> still with us. >> lingering. >> like yesterday at michael's for four hours. >> just goes there to be seen. >> it's awful. you should try and wear pants at least. >> joining the table, steven rattner former head of the automotive task force. his new book is "overhaul: an insid insider's account of the obama administration's emergency rescue of the auto industry." we'll get to that in a moment. thanks for being with us this morning. norah, are you there? >> out the door. >> straining asparagus

it's frustrated -- it's actually become an interference with the campaign. >> o'donnell also pushed back against questions about her personal finances. >> i fell behind in my mortgage. i had a pro bono client that to me was very important. i worked 18 hours a day. it was a disabled woman who the

courts ruled to remove her feeding tube. it was truly a life or death case. when her father came to me, he said, i can't pay you, but will you help me save her life? you can't say no to that. >> seriously, willie geist -- >> don't bring me in to this. >> they got the feeding tube down this person, right? >> stop. joe -- >> yes, i'll go bankrupt. willie? >> it's a pretty good defense. what are you going to say? >> seriously, what are you going to say? led the lady die? of course i went bankrupt. if i hadn't gone bankrupt, somebody would have died. >> i'd do it again a hundred times out after a hundred. >> if you didn't, could they get you for homicide on that? >> do you not believe her story? >> manslaughter. >> i was a lawyer and i did pro bono work and i found a way to not default on my mortgage. >> are you sure?

>> not really, but i can check the tax liens. >> you really should before you speak. >> mike barnicle, that's pretty good. yeah, yeah, i defaulted on the mortgage. >> i'm not touching this. >> but if i hadn't, somebody would have died. >> let's just say her track record stinks. she has a ridiculous past that should bring her down. she's found a way to spin it beautifully. she's better than sarah palin. i may not agree with anything she stands for and i may think she's a ridiculous candidate, but i don't think she doesn't have the ability to somehow get through this. she's good on camera. >> willie and i will not say we're against everything she's for because we also don't support taking feeding tubes out of dieing patients. >> maybe it's unpopular, but i'm not going to waiver on that. >> i'm not. seriously. it is unpopular right now. willie, you and i are going to take a stand.

>> some things are too important. >> i'm not going to apologize for this. go ahead. keep going. you know what? someone else is going to have the last laugh. >> she's going to win. that's the thing. >> yes, yes, yes! that's what makes this not very hilarious. senate majority leader harry reid's comments from last week where he called her democratic rival chris coons "my pet." >> what's wrong with him. >> there's a stark contrast between my opponent and me. he's called harry reid's pet. that's harry reid's word. i'm not mudslinging here. you have to wonder what strange conversations went on that led to harry reid calling him his pet. >> all this comes as a new fox news pulse poll shows o'donnell trails chris coons by 15 points in the race, 39% to 54%. >> what's wrong with harry reid?

mcdonald said things back before she -- harry reid says stupid things now. he calls chris coons his pet. >> not realizing that would be a 30-second spot in delaware. >> he's my pet. >> i'm going to be very honest with you. chris coons, everybody knows him in the democratic caucus, he's my pet. no, no. he's my favorite candidate. >> how is that going to help any candidate, to be harry reid's pet? harry reid, though. let's talk about harry reid and live in the moment instead of going back to bill maher clips. this is harry reid on senator gillibrand. mika? >> i'm sorry. we in the senate refer to senator gillibrand as the hottest member. >> as the hottest member. >> medication is wearing off.

reality is slapping me in the face. >> he's calling a u.s. senator the hottest -- do they have votes in the back, a calendar? >> she is adorable, but my god, does that matter? >> at least he wouldn't say something like that about hispanics. obviously in nevada hispanics -- you just don't do that. >> okay. let's see what he said here. >> did he say something about hispanics. >> i don't know how anyone of hispanic heritage could be a republican, okay? do i need to say more. >> calling marco rubio -- wow. at least, the senate majority leader of the united states, he may have said derogatory things about women and he may have said derogatory things about hispanics, may have called a u.s. senate candidate his pet, but at least he didn't cross the rub con and say anything insensitive about african-americans. he wouldn't do that.

>> there was that thing in "game change." do i have to read it? just read it. that's what he said about obama. put it down there. >> light-skinned african-american with no negro dialect. and that's why he was going to win. thank you, harry reid. we have crazy in the present tense and crazy in the past tense. any comments on harry reid? >> senate majority leader. senate majority leader. >> let's move on. i want to get to steve rattner. >> this morning, details are out on a much-anticipated new book by journalist bob woodward -- >> we'll start with bob woodward. >> i was going to finish the news. is that okay? >> i'm very excited about this book. this is a must-read. >> you have to zip it. bob woodward's book offers a rare behind the scenes look at the obama administration's decision to increase troops in afghanistan. in the book, "obama wars"

woodward says infighting has consumed the national security team. for example, vice president biden called richard holbrooke, quote, the most egotistical bastard i've ever met. am i allowed to say that? secretary gates allegedly warned that tom done lynn -- >> wait, you say that all the time. >> he would be, quote, a disaster for him to be national security adviser from his current position as deputy. gates, who is a man who usually keeps things very close to the vest said that. >> i look forward to reading this book. >> general petree yus said to believe that david axelrod is a complete spin doctor -- >> axelrod -- >> in addition the book discloses that according to u.s. intelligence reports afghan president hamid karzai was diagnosed as a manic depressive? u.s. am bass dorm carl ooik en bury talks about karzai says,

he's on his meds, he's off his meds. according to secret meeting notes cited in the book president obama repeatedly pressed top military advisors for a way out of afghanistan last year when they only offered options requiring adding significantly more troops, the president crafted his own strategy that called for 30,000 troops in a short-term escalation. we'll get more on that book coming up. >> bob woodward is going to be here on wednesday, tomorrow, that's exciting. today, the biggest. steven rattner. thank you for being was. let's start with news of the day and we'll get to this great book. larry summers, a guy you worked with, a guy that mike has known and liked for some time, out at the white house. >> i'm a big larry summers fan. i think there are two things about the situation in the white house that underlie all this. first, the economy's problems are really, really tough. they're intractable. we can talk about all the ideas that are out there, but it's at

best, a long, slow process and nothing seems to be working and that's an oon enormous source of pressure. having been there, life in the white house is gruelling, three times as grueling in the current scenario where you're under this intense pressure to do something, nig to fix the economy. i'm not shocked these people are wearing out. it's tough. >> we around this table and you write about it in your book, you watch the show all the time. you've heard us over the past couple years complaining about the fact that there are no business people with extensive business experience in the white house. that has been the case. but you are the lone exception. tell us, when you went into the white house and you started looking at these auto companies on how to save them, what was the biggest shock to you as far as pure bad business actions by the big three? >> we were so surprised by both -- at general motors by both the culture of the economy

which was the most stult phied, bureaucratic company we'd ever seen. this was a company that could not tell us with any given day within $5 million how much cash they had. >> are you serious? >> serious. >> one of the most bureaucratic bungling organizations you had ever met? >> couldn't make decisions. everything was too slow. they needed $10 billion or $11 billion to operate. they didn't know where their money was. >> whose fault was that? >> ultimately it's the ceo. not necessarily rick wagner. they were the subject of sec inquiries into their practices. >> i don't know if we can read this one on rick wagner, you said leaning forward in the seat, the ceo explained matter of factually that without help gm was likely to go bankrupt. that he said would almost certainly lead to the company's immediate liquidation, clearly

an economic catastrophe. if gm factories lock their gates, suppliers and dealers all over america would fall in a terrible domino effect. >> was that the biggest concern, not the job losses in detroit which was bad enough, but the terrible domino effect of the dealerships, the suppliers, the food chain that would just devastate the midwest? >> yeah. for example, chrysler directly employs 35,000 plus or minus people, we thought a chrysler liquidation on day one would be 300,000 jobs through the dealers and supplies, all the different entities youchlt get to secondary and tertiary effects, law firms, restaurants, messenger service that is help these companies. it would have been the economic equivalent of an atomic bomb for both of these companies to go under. >> you know what's amazing, you go in and help save the automobile industry now. who is to say what will happen to the industry five years from

now? if you go back and look at the "the reckoning" that the function of governing, it's the same in the early 1980s as it was when you walked in the door to help save the automobile industry. what were they thinking all those years? >> well, they weren't thinking terribly well, obviously. and they had an incredible tendency to blame all their problems on someone else. if it was tnt japanese transplants, it was the yen exchange rate. if it wasn't the yen exchange rate, it was the oil prices. what i say in my book and what i think is interesting is here you had ford which were playing the same set of cards as gm and chrysler. same contract, same japanese. they had trouble, no question about it. but they got through it and have been making good money for a while. >> what was the difference? >> management. the difference was that bill ford said to themselves when they were in worse shape than gm in 2006, kant do this by myself,

he went out and goll alan mulally outside of the auto industry. rick wagner said he thought it was a joke when that happened because he didn't know anything about autos. they borrowed $23 billion and they hunkered down and did the job. so ford didn't need our help and gm did. >> wow. >> steve, the argument that rick wagner made to you is the same one that some of the wall street firms made, kind of a gun to the head f we go down, we're bringing the economy with us. are we in a position where we're okay, not having a gun held to our heads? has the structure of the economy changed in a place like gm or lehman brothers won't take the economy down with us? >> three quick things on that. first of all, we made a tough decision to save chrysler. a large part of why we saved it was because of the moment in time where the economy was in free fall and we couldn't afford the risk of chrysler going down. secondly, the other reason we had to intervene is because there was no private capital.

i know joe's views on some of these things. we would have loved nothing better than if the private sector came and recapitalized these companies. in march of 2009 there was nothing. i personally think it's a role for government. thirdly, i'm not 100% we have solved the too big to fail problem in the financial regulation bill. how this systematic resolution authority will work as yet unproven an unexplained. i think we still have a lot of risk. >> steve, just -- actually my position on the auto bailouts was, if it would retool the industry and use great practices going forward, we had no choice. again, a domino effect, what would happen in detroit, in michigan, across the midwest and the country? >> i believe we did what you said we should do. we didn't just shove money in, we restructured these companies

fundamental fundamentally. >> i think that's why this book is so important to read. sometimes the u.s. government has to get involved. they get involved in this case and put somebody in there that actually knew how a business ran. >> steven rattner is going to stay with us. don't leave. coming up, chuck todd has the behind the scenes fallout from bob woodward's revealing new book. also, editor of redstate.com, eric ericsson and dylan ratigan are standing by. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." [ female announcer ] sometimes you need tomorrow to finish what you started today. for the aches and sleeplessness in between, there's new motrin pm. no other medicine, not even advil pm, is more effective for pain and sleeplessness. new motrin pm.

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22 past the hour. live look at the white house this morning as the sun comes up over washington, d.c. harold ford junior is back at the table. mike barnicle still with us. steven rattner still with us.

joins us from the white house, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director chuck todd. >> the more things change, the more they stay the same. another administration, another war, another woodward book and tales of infighting all over the place. >> i don't know what you're talking about. think obey want can't nobody by, the response from the white house, there's nothing to see here. these aren't the disagreements you're looking for. the senior administration officials put out very lengthy response to the woodward book this morning. and their buckback on this is this, hey, there's been policy disagreements. everybody knew that at the time there was a disagreement, particularly between biden and gates, for instance, between the military side essentially and the diplomatic side. and it's also not news that ambassador holbrook e is someboy

that rubbed people the wrong way. they look at it as the president is somebody who wants people around the table with different ops. it swrould been weirder had everybody come to the same conclusion. >> i agree with that. my gosh. what administration doesn't have serious infighting? >> in this case you've got the vice president disagreeing with the president's policy. you've got the vice president saying pretty derogatory things about the guy that's running the afghanistan-pakistan diplomatic situation. you've got your top general saying derogatory things saying he doesn't like to talk to the president's top political guy in the white house. you have rahm emanuel, your chief of staff yelling at the head of intelligence saying, watch out, we're going to be attacked and rahm saying, you're just saying that to cover your as. this isn't standard run-of-the-mill stuff. yes, it happens in every

administration. it certainly does rip a scab off a very ugly debate. >> not just talking about this week or right before the elections or the fact that, frankly, there's certainly -- one wouldn't call it a shakeup. there's certainly a lot of of turnover on the economic team. let's look at the afghanistan team in a minute. in december, this whole team is going to get back together and do one more review. the impact this book has and maybe the level of trust that's missing, i think what people got to understand about the way these woodward books work is that what happens is everybody in the administration reads it, too, and then they start going, oh, i wonder who shared that anecdote or i wonder who shared that? why is so and so trying to make themselves look so good here? then you start breaking down some trust. the one most surprising thing in "the new york times" -- all i have to go by is "the new york times" we don't have our own

copy yet of the woodward book, but i thought it was fascinating, the person's name not in the story and that's hillary clinton. >> that's interesting. >> you would assume that peter baker, if there was some interesting back and forth between secretary clinton and others and the fact that she sort of stayed out of this fray, i think -- >> notable. >> very telling and very interesting. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. >> you got it, guys. >> know you got to go. i hate to be cynical, but as i'm sitting here talking to nbc's chief white house correspondent talking about a woodward book, gossip about a war that most americans aren't focused on instead of talking about a story that would be politically devastating to this white house. which is larry suchl mers leaving. i'm just wondering if somebody leaked this story to step all over the larry summers story which is, politically harold,

that's the devastating story because the economy is what will determine whether the white house controls -- has a democratic party controlling the house or the senate. >> this isn't the first departure on the economy front. >> you've got romer and orszag, a lot of people there. i think this might be convenient for the white house to have the woodward book. i dare say, i don't think this is a treat to have the war put back in front of voters here between now and election day. we're less than now six weeks away, 41 days away. i'm not convinced you want that out there as people continue to be concerned about the number one issue, jobs and the economy. i do like the fact that they moved quickly to look at successor if the former xerox executive who serves on the president's economic advisory board is a serious contender, she would certainly answer some of the questions about business experience and someone who has

met a payroll and been around board rooms before. >> that would be good. steve, let me ask you about "overhaul," what will we learn about larry summers in that book? >> i spent a lot of time with larry and i'm in a big fan in the interest of full disclosure. i know he's not a shrinking violet and not shy. he's a unique mind, a unique policy brain and also has good political insglingts did he have good instincts on detroit? >> from a political level he had really good instincts on detroit. on a substantive level he had good instincts on detroit. i think layer ri is great. he has his own style. the meetings are long, the evenings are late. he's a big loss. i think he's a superstar. >> what's the big idea of "overhaul." >> the big idea of "overhaul" is when government steps in, it sometimes can be effective, but in this case it was effective because congress was out of the picture because we were able to draw -- sorry, hairld -- >> joe was there, too. >> well, joe left.

>> we were able to draw $82 billion of t.a.r.p. money without having to go to congress. i'm convinced and one of the big points i make in here is if we had to go to congress, one or both of these companies would have liquidated. >> are we going to get the money back? >> we'll get almost all of it if not all of it. the gmipo will be successful. gmac is fine, chrysler is doing fine. this will go down as a case where government can intervene successfully. the other big point is this is not going to become vietnam or afghanistan. we're going to get in and get out. that's part of why gm is going public so quickly because larry was determined that we get out quickly. >> a big question about foreign investment. should foreign investors have an opportunity in this ipo for gm? >> of course they should. why shouldn't they? we have foreign investment in all kinds of companies around this country. chrysler was owned by daimler for seven years in its entirety.

i know there's sensitivity around it and i know the optics of it looking like the chinese are coming in and making money off of it after we put tax dollars in. i think we should allow foreign vest. >> it will help us get paid back soon. >> it will help us get paid back. >> great to have you here. it's "overhaul." >> it's a must-read. come back soon. up next, dylan ratigan and erick erickson. new fallout this morning for city leaders in belle california accused of cheating taxpayers in a massive salary scandal. we'll be right back. >> it is massive. wall street is getting back on its feet. but the financial landscape is still full of uncertainty.

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stay twice... earn a free night! two separate stays at comfort inn or any of these choice hotels can earn you a free night -- only when you book at choicehotels.com. welcome back to "morning joe" and what the los angeles district attorney calls a case of corruption on steroids, eight city officials from an l.a. suburb spent the night in jail after being arrested for miss ap ating $5.5 million in city funds. here is nbc's george lewis. >> do you have anything to say about the charges against you? >> former city manager robert

rizzo busted in huntington beach, california, has been pulling down $800,000 in salary, twice what president obama makes. his total benefits came to about $1.5 million annually. >> the charges accuse rizzo of being responsible for at least $4.3 million of the city's losses. >> reporter: rizzo is one of eight city officials, present and former, charged with numerous counts of misappropriating funds. when police went after ayar oscar hernandez, they had to break down his door with a battering ram. >> this was accomplished by deceit and secrecy. >> reporter: the district attorney making it clear he's going after anyone connected with this. >> i would charge my mother if i had evidence against my mother. >> please, i need respect, everybody. >> reporter: in july when people found out about the astronomical salary it is city officials were getting, they stormed city

council meetings demanding their resignation. and when news came of the arrests on tuesday, some citizens literally jumped for joy. >> yay, we did it. i'm happy. i'm happy. this is what i was waiting for from the very beginning. >> we just love the idea of all the city council going to jail in handcuffs. >> reporter: the california attorney general running for governor is suing the bell city officials trying to recover much of the money. >> when you see it, you can smell it. this stinks to high heaven. >> reporter: today when former city manager rizzo appears in court t district attorney will ask the judge to set his bail at $3.2 million. >> wow. nbc's george lewis reporting. looking ahead for tomorrow on "morning joe," former president bill clinton will be on the show, and we'll be right back with dylan ratigan and red states erick erickson next on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] what if your natural beauty could be flawless, too?

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my advice for the democrats is don't play games. make this about the american people. tell them what we need to do and what you would do about it and ask them if they really think you're more likely to do it than your opponent. i think we should just play it straight. we shouldn't be cute here. the american people are scared to death, and they're angry and they want to know where we're going. treat the american people with respect. tell them what you're going to do, ask them who is more likely to do it. if it's a choice, we can win. if it's a referendum, that's not good. >> that's bill clinton talking to a seemingly wax figure of

wolf blitzer. >> bill clinton was talking a lot. >> lean forward a bit. come on, wolf. speaking of cnn, look who is here. >> erick erickson. >> editor of redstate.com and co-author of "red state up rising: how to take back america." >> that's right. don't you say that contemptuously. look at this person over here. >> how about the rabid fan in new hampshire who watches dylan like obsessively almost. >> i wouldn't call it an obsession. he asked a question and started sounding like you with the tools, host of mshs's the dylan ratigan show who is taking his show to a jobs fair in dallas tomorrow. look at that. aren't you something? >> yes. >> dylan, the arm folded look.

>> that's an old picture. i totally agree. it's like four years ago from cnbc. >> call management and say why are you using pictures -- >> i'll do the female version of it. powerful. >> they're using a cnbc picture from '07. >> first let's talk about "red state up rising." >> erick erickson, i'm reading your book. the beginning of it sounds like my book. >> i thought you'd like that. >> the democrats spend too much money and the republicans party spends too much money. >> erick, you and i have had a lot of conversations and asked the same question. if the republican party gets another chance, are they going to let conservatives down again? >> probably. probably. they're going to roll out this agenda tomorrow. i have no doubt that for a year now they've been pounding their chest saying we need to get rid

of the budget act from the 1970s and let the president not spend money. i guarantee that won't be in there. they will have nothing on it saying we're going to ban earmarks, nothing in there to excite anybody. >> i remember i was walking out in 1999 with shaddock, walking out of the house chambers, i turned to shaddock in '99 and said, you know what, if there were a conservative party in america, republicans would be in big trouble. >> i don't know. you got one in new york and look at the republican party. >> here we are 11 years later. when is this party going to get conservative on spend sng. >> that's one reason i'm a big fan of the tea party movement. in the senate moving it as opposed to moving it to republican hands. christine o'donnell probably not so much in delaware, but some of them will win. you need five or six republicans in the senate to make mitch mcconnell get a spine. he's the party of the

appropriator. >> if the republicans take control of power after losing power for spending too much money frngs they're going to have mitch mcconnell -- >> i like the guy. he's an appropriator. in the house you'll have john boehner, and i like john. >> i know why i'm excited. >> but john -- you know what? we had a conservative group, a small conservative group of 20 or 30 fighting throughout the 1990s to keep newt on us. john boehner was never there, never close to being there. delay was there, army was there, a lot of leaders were there, not john boehner. i'm not knocking him. on spending -- >> who would the conservative bs in the house? will it be tom price or mike nens? maybe they'll be there. i suspect rumbling tomorrow if the agenda isn't conservative. a lot of people want the social conservative at expects of it although right now we're in a fiscal conservative mood in the

country. >> what about paul ryan? >> i like him but i think he's got too much invested in this road map. do i really believe anybody in government can write a plan to save us in 70 years? no. >> could you name -- again, i've been knocked around for a long time and i finally got somebody that says some of the same things that i say. they don't -- my kids, i can't even get my kids to say the same things i say. while i've got you. >> yack is 2. he doesn't talk. >> what happens to the republican party which fought like hell for conservative values, especially on spending from '95 to '99, what happened to them during the bush era? this must be explained before republicans take control. >> it was that george w. bush was conservative, but he was not a conservative. he had a gut that was a conservative gut. he really wasn't a conservative, wasn't a fiscal conservative. republicans like to blame obama for t.a.r.p. let's be honest, it was the republicans who gave us t.a.r.p.

and the gm bailout and the gave us steel tear lives in pennsylvania. >> boy, i'm excited about voting this fall. >> does thant go to the fundamental point that there is limited difference between the status quo democratic leadership and status quo republican lead ship which is why you end up with the expression that actually is not -- the problem with the extremist response is that doesn't help us either. >> i wouldn't use the word extremist. i think you have a lot of people mad at washington. >> for sure. >> probably more closely identify with the republicans on supposedly fiscal issues. this is the party supposedly of limited government that kept going up under bush. that's why you're seeing a sharon engel in nevada. >> we just had steve rattner in, saved, in quotes, general motors with government money. would you be in favor of doing what steve rattner did? >> no, honestly i wouldn't. i don't believe in too big to

fail. i think if general motor fails, the free market decides. the problem is you've got too many companies in mayor who would rather send lobbyists to washington to shut down competition than spend money on invoation. general motors was one of them. >> aim men. that message, and we said earlier today -- mike has become the defender of the tea party after scott brown in massachusetts. >> he said to find a right. but we said earlier today, if you put the tea party platform down, the republican party platform down and the democratic platform party down, don't have any names, people would choose that and they would choose no bailouts, let the market decide. >> because of what's hatched in washington over the last ten years. >> when you have members of congress, republicans and democrats, who would rather come to washington and then become lobbyists and get rich. lisa murkowski is a good example. >> can i ask a question?

in '99 they chose a different path. everything got a lot bigger. if you let what you now have created fail, it's an ob lit ration of work, of all the pensions, all these things. >> what he's asking is don't you need to go from heroin to methadone? >> i used to think that. i'm a big believe ner the pain caucus, get it over and done with. >> let me tell you what that means in the context of the bailouts, all the california teacher pensions, every judge's pension, every middle class pension in this country. >> it's terrible. >> gone. so you'd obliterate all the middle class pensions for people who did nothing, get rid of the available credit for the poor and allow the wealthy to take -- not that that's your intenti intention -- >> the problem is yes it's terrible. >> my point is walking -- >> dude, let him answer. i got a followup. that's your short question?

>> they've got to fail. we've got to start over. i'm not one of those people who want to see the world burn, type of guys. at some point some of the stuff has to be torn down and rebuilt. >> all the pension ps? >> yes, all of the pensions. >> all right, good. >> at 4:00 you can see dylan. >> let's burn down the barn. who needs food? >> stop. just stop! like a crack addict. man. we talk a good bit on this show, and you know we've had this discussion, you need to stay calm, you need to keep calm. now -- >> and carry on. >> you know this. you see me being savaged by the left and right on twitter all the time. sometimes you don't keep calm. and sometimes you don't carry on. >> very cathartic. >> perhaps. i don't think it's good for our political system. do you -- are you comfortable with some of the things that

say, for instance, glenn beck -- by the way, i could talk about the other side. i have talked about the other side, but i'm responsible for my side right now. like when glenn beck calls the president racist. that causes you concerns, doesn't it? >> yeah. there are some things that make me cringe. but, you know, they're playing to an audience. i'm not exactly sure which audience it is that you're saying the president is racist. i don't think he is. >> you think the president is a goodman, don't you? >> i'm sure he's a goodman. >> do you think the president loves his country? >> yes and no. >> do you think he's a good father. >> yes. >> do you think he's a good husband? >> he better be. she makes him eat arugula. the tone is shrill on both sides. glenn beck, i think he plays to the crowd and knows his audience. he's quite successful at it. i don't think the president is

racist. i do disagree with his world view about the is racist. i do disagree with his world view of the country. >> listen, he doesn't believe in american exceptionalism. >> joe just asked you if you believe the president loves this country. >> i think he loves america through his world view, which i disagree with. so, yes, he loves the country, but i think he views it differently. part of my love for this country comes from my world views. >> thank you, erick. >> "red state uprising." i thought they were going to drag him off. he is thriving there.

>> it's good to have you. >> thanks very much. >> i've got five words for you. >> yeah? >> keep calm and carry on. and keep up the fight. >> thank you. words alone aren't enough. our job is to listen and find ways to help workers who lost their jobs to the spill. i'm iris cross. we'll keep restoring the jobs, tourist beaches, and businesses impacted by the spill. we've paid over $400 million in claims and set up a $20 billion independently-run claims fund.

i was born in new orleans. my family still lives here. i'm gonna be here until we make this right. a man who played second base here some 45 years ago. actually, 47. ladies and gentlemen, mr. larry mccarthy. amidst today's financial ups and downs, our sophisticated wealth transfer strategies... and philanthropic expertise can ensure your legacy... is passed on to family or your favorite pastime. ♪

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>> you think you know him that well? how? >> because leo and i used to go out. >> what did she say? >> she said leo and i used to go out -- >> that was a scene from nbc's new show, "under cover." here with us now, one of the costars, boris cojo. tell us what it was like behind "lost," some of the others. what is it about him that makes him so special? >> he's crazy. one of the only guys in hollywood that -- he come to the set and has this plan and he's here to plan. he has a great time every day.

him and josh are just genius writers. >> so what's he got dialed up for us? a lot of people say it's like brad and angelina. >> the difference is, we don't kill each other. we love each other. it's like a new millennium hart to hart i would say. we travel to these exotic places and kick butt and try to make our marriage work. >> what should people expect for the season? >> there's some hidden secrets. we made a pact, we said, we're not going talk about our pasts. so, there are secrets. little skeletons that start creeping out of the closet. every episode reveals itself more what we're about. >> get back into the game. >> looks like a great joe.

and if j.j. is doing it, it probably is. premiers tonight on nbc, 8:00 eastern. 7:00 central right here on nbc. thanks again. up next, howard fineman and michelle nor rhys. [ male announcer ] if you've had a heart attack caused by a completely blocked artery, another heart attack could be lurking, waiting to strike. a heart attack that's caused by a clot, one that could be fatal. but plavix helps save lives. plavix, taken with other heart medicines goes beyond what other heart medicines do alone, to provide greater protection against heart attack or stroke and even death, by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking together and forming dangerous clots. ask your doctor if plavix is right for you. protection that helps save lives. [ female announcer ] certain genetic factors and some medicines, such as prilosec, reduce the effect of plavix leaving you at greater risk for heart attack and stroke. your doctor may use genetic tests to determine treatment.

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here's good news. experts say the recession is over.

so now, you can go out there and start running up big bills on the credit card. earlier today, they were popping champagne corks at the unemployment office. they're going to -- they've nominated and are probably going to elect a witch as senator from delaware. listen to this. one day, delaware elects a witch. the next day, the recession is over. i don't know. is that a coincidence? >> oh, my. 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." still with us, dylan ratigan. >> arms crossed. >> at the jobs fair. >> jobs fair, actually a very good idea. but look at this picture. it's bad. >> this is '07 cnbc, "fast money." >> are you not going to put this

up? >> mika, how do you do it? >> with the worst -- we've got the worst -- >> there is a shadow on the face. >> you idiots. i mean, seriously, who does a picture like that? >> cnbc. >> that's right. >> we've done several like that. >> i bet msnbc, too, and cnn and probably fox. nbc, cbs, abc. carry on. >> also joining the cable, senior political editor for the "huffington post," howard fineman. also, michele norris, who's also the author of "the grace of silence." >> i don't get it. i don't get it. >> because i talk on the radio?

>> we're going to talk about that. we're also going to talk about howard fineman, your exciting must've to arianna's "huffington post." >> is that what it's called now? >> we were at an event last night for arianna. she is talked about. it's hot in the site. she's built it from nothing to the leading news site on the web. it's remarkable. >> back in '98, '99, people -- you can go into any news room in america and into any congressional office, and it was up there. on the bookmarks. "huffington post." people still -- it is that site now. >> you're absolutely right to make the analogy.

even conservatives have to go there. >> one of the things that made drudge, one of the things out of news week about what we were doing on monica. >> worked the story. >> and drudge worked all the news rooms. he was the first to realize he could make news by getting stuff out of traditional news rooms. it's a broad-based sit. >> but this is the big step for her, to get the seasoned pro in washington, d.c. with all the contacts. she has not done that in the past. for you, that is the big step forward. >> she's got some terrific reporters. sam stein. >> he's wonderful. >> they just hired amanda turko. >> i guess what i was trying to say, they got an old guy. >> arianna said -- we're going

to marry the best with the old. and i said, arianna, please. she said, howard, i meant old media. >> when you write a story and we talked about this last night, you understand like drudge leans right, "huffington post" leans left, but you said you're still going to write it straight down the middle. >> that's why she hired me. i'm not on editorial writer. i have good republican contacts and i want to keep them. among the first columns i made to people was to republicans and conservatives saying, look -- >> is this going to be okay. >> i need you to help report and educate this audience. if i can make the conversation more cross current, great. >> what do you want to do -- it's quite a playground.

what do you want to do with it? >> i'm going to write columns about how politics works and try to explain it to people. in the book that i wrote, i was writing for msnbc.com. that's where i started on the web 12 years ago. it's not like i haven't been writing for the web, but to go completely paperless -- >> what can you illuminate? what type of information do you see as most valuable to the conversation right now? >> arianna has taken the survival of the middle class as her task and i view that not as an id logical thing. if i can though ways that washington is working or is not working for those people, that should be what i should be measured against every day. >> this morning, details are out on the new book by bob woodward.

it offers a rare, behind the scenes look at what's going on in the obama administration. >> some of the things, about the decision to increase troops in afghanistan. there was concern and strife over there. in the book, obama words, end fighting has consumed the team -- secretary gates allegedly warned that -- and general petraeus has said to believe that david axelrod is quote a complete spin doctor. in addition, the book discloses that president karzai was diagnosed as a manic-depressive. carl eikenberry talks about karzai saying, quote, he's on

his meds, he's off his meds. according to documents in the book, president obama repeatedly pressed top military advisers for a way out of afghanistan last year and they only offered options that required more troops, the president crafted his own strategy that called for 30,000 more troops and a short-term escalation. bob woodward will be on "morning joe" next wednesday and talk more about the book. >> michele, we've seen this before. bob woodward plus war plus new administration equals chaos contained in the book. >> and it is not surprising, given the wars in iraq, afghanistan. it's not surprising that this kind of political intrigue. we can focus on that, but it's deeply troubling when you think about that because there's no clear way out. and the, whether he follows one strategy or another, it's clear

that we could be in afghanistan for a very long time. and what is most troubling to people is sons and daughters over there who are thinking about what this means for the country, the economy. there's no clear path. to whom do they pass the baton? the only way out is to be able to leave the country into some sort of stable hands and a government that can handle it. >> got a manic-depressive who one day wants to be a member of the taliban wants -- it is a complete mess. >> at the same time, you wouldn't be surprised they are fighting over it. >> if you look at from the perspective of the troops who die and risk their lives, to me, this book and the contents of it are so embarrassing and humiliating for us as a country, that we would send our soldiers into harm's way for a unclear objective at this point and then

have a book come out that has the presidential advisers advocating these soldiers risk their live ws a -- excuse my language, a bitch fest about who should and who shouldn't. >> don't know what working is. >> what is working? >> this happened after the the vietnam war. put the microscope on the white house and pentagon, but 10, 20 years after the fact. i mean, right now, instead of the realtime journalism and sort of confessional nature of this country, it's sort of surprising. woodward is very good at what he does, but people are still talking about his work. >> let's talk about "the grace of silence." it didn't end up being the book you thought it would be when it

started. >> it's an accidental memoir. i decided to try to write a book on the hidden conversation on race in this country. i thought something interesting was happening in the run-up to the 2008 election. i thought i would be writing a book about other people and along the way, i learned some profound secrets in my family. i discovered as a young man, my father had been shot. shortly after he returned from world war ii, he returned to birmingham, alabama. they had fought for dmemocracy, they want to vote. they met a wall of resistance. in my father's case, he was going to an event. a police officer tried to stop him. he was shot in the leg. i also learned secrets from my mother's side of the family.

they didn't tell us that because they didn't want our path forward to be cluttered by their frustrations. i just needed to know more about my own family and so, i decided to pivot and write this book that would examine the world they lived in. what happened to them. how it impacted me and to learn a little bit more about this country. in this sort of period proceeding the civil rights movement, i explain that it's like harriet tubman ran up to martin luther king and sort of passed the baton. >> michele, are you glad that your parents kept those stories from you when they did? >> or do you understand why? >> i understand why. >> do you think if they had told you that, that may have affected your -- >> i do. i wrestled with this a lot.

this was a deeply painful book to research and write. it is a hard book to talk about. i will never get used to saying, my father was shot. those words never will fall easily off my tongue, but i understand why he didn't talk about it. when you send your children out into the world and if you want them to go out and do great things, you don't put boulders in their pockets when they leave the house. you don't share your own tales of personal frustration. >> how did it change your view of america? >> and what you were researching? >> people talk about race and anger are always intertwined. >> how do you not get angry if your father was shot because he was trying to have the same rights as white americans. >> when i look back, it's easy

to be angry. basically for a generation of veterans, this was not aberrational. we don't talk about this. dozens of black veterans were beaten, maimed, burned, blinded. there was a blinding of a black veteran in south carolina that prompted president truman to integrate the military. we don't know these things, but instead of looking back in anger, i look back in wonder because of the country we man e managed to move from that to what we see today in a very short period of time. >> how did your father not give into hate? >> part of it may have been a natural temperament. he had a pretty funny

opposition. i know that from talking to people about the child he was, the teenager he was. a lot of it was my choice. i talked to a lot of these veterans who were marginalized in the military and they made a choice to move forward with hope. that's why i look back and wonder because it would have been so easy for them to make another choice. when we think about race as being something that sparks people's anger, there's a large group of people, a lot of them, and you know these men. they tried to show the world what they could be and the way they handle themselves and the way they work on their homes, their gardens. they try to send a signal to the world and they moved forward and i think in some way, by deciding to arm their kids with ambition and trying to show america what it could be, they sort of shoved

the country forward. they like put a shoulder ahead and said, let's move ahead. >> howard, i forget sometimes, because i was in mississippi. my dad worked for lockheed. i went to a public school in first grade in mississippi, 1969. first year it was integrated. 50/50. barack obama got elected. great, that's a guy i went to elementary school with. i went to law school with. but i forget sometimes, talking about the '40s and '50s, and when i talk to friends, jim clyburn. jim lived in this. for me, you might as well talk about harriet tubman. it's amazing there are so many guys like jim clyburn that have to have this same position. >> i think michele is telling a

story about another aspect of the greatest generation. these world war ii guys and women, but they are heroic in many, many, many ways. and the african-american experience she's talking about is another aspect of their stoicism. he wanted to help his family, but it was a positive act for the country to say that i've served and i'm going to continue serving by keeping my stories to myself so my children are free. >> what i tried to do in the book also was try to understand people who lived on the other side of the color line. they were the first black family that lived in minneapolis. my mother, it would be easy for her to be angry and she now lives in a condominium where there are white women, black women, most of her friends are probably not ones who would have

befriended her in the 1950s. it's important to think about people who lived on the other side of the color line because i went and found people in the south, people in birmingham, and some of the things i heard in the course of this are very troubling. the people who at one point, enforced segregation and enjoyed segregation have to be part of that and it might not be easy if you were on the other side. >> michele, stay with us. >> dylan, tell us about our, about what you're doing at this jobs fair. >> there's something that occurred to me. michael eisner was on the show yesterday. been talking to a string of folks about this. i think what your story represents is a concept of just us. there is not us and them. you're not allowed to make ziss in the context of us and them because that world war ii generation had to be us because

that was the only way forward and i think that part of what we've lost recently and in the intermediate period is us. instead, we've got to us and i thank you for sharing. >> all right. dylan, thank you. >> job wars. >> the job -- >> keep that up. >> job wars. right here on msnbc. you're folding your arms like that, you must be powerful. plus, why president ahminedjad's trip to the general assembly may be adding trip to a very hot fire. [ female announcer ] it can creep up on you. dry skin. that's why there's lubriderm® daily moisture. it contains the same nutrients

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from iran, ahminedjad is new york city. he received a chilly reception and i said, hey, welcome to the club. he kicked off the session at the u.n. yesterday with a hate-filled rant and or dur. let me say a couple of words about ahminedjad. short and ugly. there you go. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 24 past the hour.

president ahminedjad's visit this week creates drama that has exploded in both the u.s. and iran. >> how are both the extremes thriving off the visit? >> in iran, ahminedjad's great domestic problem and those go away when they perceive the world is ganging up on them, which is what happens in all countries. and the extremists that created a war with iran get to use ahminedjad to scare the americans into believing he's a threat. so both in both countries benefit. >> you don't think he's a threat? how could he be a threat?

his mailitary is a fraction of what we have. you have to go back centuries to find -- so, the idea that they're a threat is less compelling than a claim that iraq was. >> what about the fact that you've got a country that's been the epicenter of terrorism since 1979? and may possibly get their hands on a nuclear weapon. if they get their hands on a nuclear weapon, that's a concern, right? >> i don't know what the claim is that iran is the center of international terrorism. actually, i would say if there's any country, it would be our allies, saudi arabia, which is ground zero for islamic extremi extremism. >> iran is not -- >> no one is clean hands. most of the wars in the middle east have actually involved

israel, which already has nuclear weapons. i don't think anybody wants iran to get nuclear weapons, but the idea that we should start another war to stop it is a problem. >> does that concern you that iran might get nuclear weapons or do you believe that israel has them, then iran has the right to have them? >> i wouldn't say they have a right. they're part of the treaty in which they've agreed not to have them. it's hardly a threat. you would prefer they not get them. there's no real evidence they're trying to get them. if they get them, it's a worse situation than if they don't, but nothing close to a threat. >> but it would be a threat to israel if you have ahminedjad saying -- >> there's nothing that iran has ever done that's in any way proven their suicidal. they are sitting on a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons.

>> is ahminedjad just playing to his massive phase? >> leaders take the right that israel doesn't have the right to exist. it's really nothing more than a claim than we don't believe and not that we want to get nuclear weapons and incinerate the israelis. >> howard, we've got two tough choices to make. and we have for some time. one, allow iran to cross the line and get nuclear weapons. very, very bad choice to take. or the equally bad choice to take, invade our third muslim country in a decade or attack or allow israel to do that. it seem to me that washington, quietly over the past year, decided that iran getting nuclear weapons is inevitable

and we're going to have to figure out how to deal with it. >> that's the tone i get out of them about this. it's gone from whether to how. and how we try to manage it. by the way, you know, all those leaks about how israel was getting ready to bomb iran and all that. i didn't buy that for a second because if israel were going to do it, we'd learn about it after the fact. not on the cover of "the atlantic." there's a lot of postyuring. these israelis and iranian have more history and more knowledge of each other and more, in some respects, comfort with each other culturely as opposed to the arab countries than people realize. i think this is going to be the -- the best we can hope is continuing laborious, ongoing

negotiations. the one concern is that if ir iranian do get nuclear capability, as they've done with other terrorist groups, slip some nuclear material to those others. that's a nightmare scenario and in the new woodward book, obama says that's his one big nightmare. loose nuclear. >> and what a lot of americans haven't heard yet or don't understand is the fact that while israel fears iran getting nuclear weapons, the so-called moderate arab states feared as much -- >> no, they don't understand that. just to follow on howard's point, in the obama administration, you get the sense there's been too much focus in this initial period on iran. that they've taken the ball off pakistan and they should be spending more time, attention, careful negotiation dealing with a very volatile situation there

and the other thing i think is interesting, this is an observation that might lead to a question, watching ahminedjad using this period in new york. he sort of learned how to use this period during the general assembly to send a message. >> mika and i went to a breakfast with him yesterday. i've got to say, this guy, listen, this guy's very intelligence. he loves the give and take. last time we had breakfast, he made jokes. he said, you in the west, you say you want peace with us and we try to deal with the french. we give them oil, what do they

give us? pugots. have you ever driven a pugots? he's a frightening guy, but a bright guy. we're going to hold on to glenn because i want to talk to him about afghanistan. glenn has the answer. >> i do. i'm going to reveal that after the break. >> oh, good. also, who will take over for larry summers? sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro.

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time for a check on business before the bell. let's go to erin burnett. >> erin burnett, larry summers. >> is that a -- on steroids? >> international superstar, erin burnett. larry summers is going back to harvard where he can eat lunch in peace. who's replacing larry summers? >> we got our dark horse list. sorry, i got haines in here yelling and screaming. >> tell my man crush i love him. >> joe says you're his man crush. he still loves you. all right. let's get to our list of dark

horse candidates. i put this person on the top. this is a really interesting one on the top. larry kellner. this guy is so respected by financial people. he was loved by his employees. he got that new company avoided bankruptcy and he's now no longer ceo. born in 1959. could be a great guy to have at the nec. ron hermance. he's ceo of the largest bank that did not take t.a.r.p. money. and then bob lane, ceo of deer. he's still on the boards of verizon and ge. he ran the tractor company. heart of american manufacturing.

and former ceo of xerox. i thought those were three to take a look at. >> what do you think, mike barnacle? >> it doesn't matter who takes the job. got to put people to work. >> erin burnett, thank you so much. and please give my man crush a big old hug. >> he's a little out of sorts today. >> can we move the camera over to haines? >> can we? move the camera to haines? oh -- >> all right. we'll be right back with deepak chopra. [ manager ] you know... i've been looking at the numbers, and i think our campus is spending too much money on printing.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, spiritual leader and author, dr. deepak chopra. good to have you back on the show. >> your family still watching? >> yeah. >> are you sure? >> very good. so, tell us about the book. >> well, you know i've written about jesus. about budda and now, muhammad. >> obviously, very timely. people in new york, unfortunately, in the center of the debate over one of the three great religions of this world. tell us, what is somebody reads this book that doesn't know about muhammad.

>> first of all, 63% of americans according to gallup say they don't know anything about muhammad. that's a lot of people. the only way to increase our awareness is to find out. muhammad is very interesting, because unlike jesus, he doesn't say he's of devine orgin. he says, i'm a man amongst men. all the good that happens in the world comes from god and everything not so good, i take the responsibility for. that's really good for a leader to say that. he also is astonished when he has his revelation. he was in the cave, in quiet meditation and suddenly, he hears the angel, gabe, the same that appeared before mary -- recite in the name of ever

bountiful who did to you which is not known before. he's terrified because he thinks he's possessed, but as he becomes comfortable, he starts to recite is koran. yet, what comes out of his mouth has some of the greatest revealing truths. every religion is based on three ideas. the trans endent, love and compassion and joy and truth, goodness and beauty. platonic values. that emerge from that experience. over the last decade or so, unfortunately, in the eyes of many westerners, muhammad's name and muslim religion have been smeared and perverted by a small group of extremists. what do you hope people in america and the west will learn about muhammad? >> i think if you stop dem

demonizing people without knowing who they are, then you have a chance for creative solutions. we demonize people that we don't know. and when we know them, for the most part, we realize that most of them are the same desires, the same needs. they want the same things. and nobody wants to live in the state of terror or turmoil or war or violence. >> the most recent example is ground zero, which so many people, like 70% of americans were against that mosque or the islamic cultural center being in new york city and they sort of con plated the muslim religion in general. >> i was with president obama a few days ago and he said what they should do is call this islamic center a center for peace and unity.

they should dedicate it and honor it to those killed on september 11th and that would be a great solution. >> great idea. now, let me ask you, obviously, do not believe in images. people drawing images of muhammad. you have written a novel about the prophet, muhammad. have you had any pushback from muslim groups? >> initially, when the cover was questioned because there is an image on the cover. it's an image of a person in the desert. it's ambiguous. they're kind of nervous about that cover. they said it was okay. you know, the book is a novel, but it's based on fact. there are 18 chapters. each is written by a western in his life.

a christian who say the boy when he was 9. the nurse who nursed him before he went back to his mother. the slave who took care of him when he was a child. so, the book is offered through these 18 perspectives and they're all factually based. i thought it would be easier to draw people in to the prophet muhammad if it was a great story. >> a story of the last prophet. >> very timely, too. >> looking ahead to tomorrow, president bill clinton will be on the show. that will be interesting. >> we'll ask him about the solution. >> yes, do ask him. i tried, you know, every problem has a creative solution. >> yes. >> sure does. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." catamaran sailor. i can my own homemade jam, apricot. and i really love my bank's raise your rate cd.

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and see the world in a different light. words alone aren't enough. our job is to listen and find ways to help workers who lost their jobs to the spill. i'm iris cross.

we'll keep restoring the jobs, tourist beaches, and businesses impacted by the spill. we've paid over $400 million in claims and set up a $20 billion independently-run claims fund. i was born in new orleans. my family still lives here. i'm gonna be here until we make this right. we're back with glenn greenwald. also, michele norris. great new book. "grace of silence." let's talk about afghanistan. mike barnacle and i have been concerned, obviously, for the past couple of years about the generals asking for more troops. the book comes in and looks like

it was the generals against everybody else in the administration. >> although the president ended up giving the general what they wanted. there was a question about how real this was, this is isn't going to go on forever. i think the real issue is that one of the lessons we were supposed to learn from 9/11 is that the reason why there's so many people willing to strap on bombs and blow us up is not because they hate us because our freedom. they think the these we're doing in their world merritt retaliation. and so, here we are in afghanistan continuing to prop up a corrupt government, continuing to drop bombs regularly. obama has intensified the number of drone attacks in pakistan, the number of civilians we're killing, so all the things we claim we learn as to what causes terrorism are the things we continue to do. occupy their countries, dropping

bombing. we're continuing the problem. >> mike barnacle, christmas day bomber didn't go back to occupying saudi arabia. it was drone attacks killing civilians in afghanistan. >> war is a messy business and there are going to be stories and events where civilians get killed. the larger issue with afghanistan resognated with me having dinner a week and a half ago with a young captain back from afghanistan. he said if we were able to go to helmand province, kabul, every member of the taliban, they would throw rocks at us. that's what they would do. >> talk about the timing, talk about what they are doing now, what they haven't -- had not continued to do, what they did early on in the war was to try to decapitate the taliban by

cutting down on the drug trade. if you look at the numbers, the drug trade has come roaring back. they might not have to throw rocks because they still have money to go buy guns. >> so, what's the end game? there has never been an end game in afghanistan. >> this is the problem as we make this mistake. that was the question with vietnam and very a while, with iraq. once we invade these countries and destroy their infrastructure, the only choices we have are to leave the chaos that's there or rebuild it. >> and what's the triggering event to leave in right now, administration officials will tell you to prop up the government, karzai. this is a guy who won't even take his medicine. >> what we try and do is keep doing it because the idea is losing means leaving. >> okay, but do you have a clear answer? >> we ought to leave.

>> and what would happen if we left? >> then the country would essentially return to what it is now. >> you don't see problems with that? >> there's things you can do. you don't want al-qaeda to return to afghanistan. there's no reason to think the taliban would give it. >> ask me that. >> what would happen if we left. >> ask what would happen if we left in 2011? the same thing in 2021. in 2031. the same thing that would happen in 2041 except for the fact a lot more young americans are going to get bullet through the back of their heads between 2011 and 2021 and we will have no more of the strategic advantage than $2 billion a week over the next decade. glenn, this is senseless. what barnacle and i get so upset about is nobody has an answer to that. we can't leave because it would

be chaotic. but it will be chaotic if we leave ten years from now. >> political leader who is leave wars and chaos there are accused of losing a war and it's a huge political fear and if we stop politicizing the war and have the conversation that we're losing lives for no reason and financially harming ourself for no reason and making things worse, then we could have a rational -- >> you nailed it. obama doesn't want to be reasonable for losing the war and republicans are waiting for a chance to blame him for losing the war. >> glenn, thank you. >> michelle norris. "the grace of silence." >> i still don't get the title. >> what we learned today -- my name is vonetta, and i suffer from allergies. [ male announcer ] we asked zyrtec® users what they love about their allergy relief, and what it lets them do. the thing i love most about zyrtec® is that it allows me to be outside. [ male announcer ] we bet you'll love zyrtec®, too -- or it's free.

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welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn, william? >> i've learned based on the reports out of bob's book, there could be some awkward moments in the white house cafeteria this morning. >> stop it. >> that's weird. what did you learn? >> i'm shocked that joe biden actually said that? because joe has never spoken like that about